Grief and the lead up to Christmas – Radio Interview 2GB Sydney – Overnights with Mike Jeffreys

Michelle Moriarty is a grief expert, founder of Grief Connect. She’s on the phone. Good morning, Michelle, thanks for doing this.

Michelle: Good morning.

Host: Dealing with grief – is that particularly difficult at this time of the year, when a lot of people think, I should be feeling happy, but I’m not, because of whatever happened in their life?

Michelle: It sure is. We can have that double whammy effect, where we’re already missing someone – a person who’s died, a loved one, a friend – and then we’re coming into the Christmas holidays, and that sort of festive season can really magnify our loss, because our person is simply not with us on earth.

Host: Talking about losing a loved one, do you think we’re going to change the way we deal with that? Let me tell you a little example – this is a fellow that I’m not close with, but I’d say we’re friends. If I met him in the street he’d probably go and have a coffee with me. He made a life choice, gave up drinking, went for the weed instead, and that actually worked for him and he ended up being very successful – but it’s also killed him, and he acknowledges all that, and he died of lung cancer. But the interesting thing in this context is, I think he knew toward the end – he just passed on Friday, but he knew toward the end it was the end, and a whole lot of people came around to see him. They were there in the room, and the doctor came, all legal, gave him the “hot shot” – voluntary assisted dying – and that seemed to work very well. There won’t be a funeral, his wife will go to a place they love to visit and scatter his ashes. But we had people gather around, accepting the fact that he’s had a good life, he’s going to go, everybody seemed happy with the result, with what happened there. Do you think we’re going to see more of that – are we going to control our end more closely, and the way the people who love us deal with it?

Michelle: It certainly is something that we’re becoming more comfortable talking about as a society – that preparation, that anticipatory grief, that preparation for death. It’s okay to have those conversations about what you might want it to look like, and that sounds like what your friend had gone through, where he’s had that experience and had that pre-funeral, almost, from what you just described.

Host: Yes – whereas that ceremonial getting together, gathering, honouring life, and then he has chosen to pass.

Michelle: That sounds really perfect for his situation, and it’s very individual, how we all do it – and we do all do it very, very differently.

Host: But I guess it depends what happens – I mean, if your 11 year old child is killed by a drunk driver, not only are you going to be grieving, but you’re going to be very angry as well, aren’t you?

Michelle: Look, that’s certainly people’s experience in that grief – especially with a child, a situation like that would be extremely traumatic, and no doubt there would be some blame associated and fault given to that circumstance. Given those complexities around a child’s death in such a tragic circumstance, there would be likely to be feelings of anger and fury – grief fury is certainly its own emotion, where it’s extremely intense and overwhelming, and it can very much take over. But again, we come back to how we all grieve very differently and in a unique way, depending on the situation and the scenario.

Host: So you really have to understand it in the case of the individual who’s grieving, don’t you? I can think of a particularly horrible circumstance with somebody I know, but the reaction they have can vary quite a lot, and a great deal of the time they simply don’t want to be reminded of the horror of it. So that makes it pretty tough for everybody else – if other people have an inclination to say, I’m so sorry about what happened, and this person is finding it so difficult to cope, they don’t want to hear more about it, that’s pretty tricky, isn’t it?

Michelle: It is really tricky, and it’s a very common experience to not know what to do or say in different scenarios, and that generally creates a lot of avoidance out there. But what that does is it creates and embeds a sense of social isolation for the person who’s grieving. So it can be really helpful to still check in with the person you might be caring about or worried about, and be guided by them and what they’re saying they need. It may be that they’re wanting space, or that they may not want to talk about it, but they also may really find a sense of relief by having someone ask, would you like to talk about this? How are you going with your grief?

Host: Yeah, so it’s a tricky thing to read though. Do you have any recommendations on how to go about that – if you think, I wonder how whoever it is is going, and you want to give them a call, maybe suggest you go have a coffee or lunch or something? Any recommendation on how to take the conversation?

Michelle: Sure – I think if you are experiencing any of those thoughts, that’s the first point. Reflecting on that and saying, right, I’m having these thoughts, I would like to check in on my friend or family member, and act on it. You can do that by simply sending a text message, making a phone call, popping in for a cuppa – it can be very flexible. My main advice is, if you’re having those thoughts, act on them, because it’s that connection, created by reaching out to someone who is experiencing grief, that can really be life changing for them.

Host: A lot of people are left with the feeling that the world has been unfair to them. Is there any way of dealing with that?

Michelle: Absolutely – if someone is expressing that this is unfair, or you might even be feeling like that about the situation they’re in, expressing that and using your words, saying it really is unfair that this has happened, because simply in those words is an acknowledgement of somebody’s grief, and that really validates them and where they’re at, and that can be quite comforting.

Host: Yeah, it’s interesting isn’t it – I’ve had women call me in the middle of the night over the years, and they’re going through a lot because their husband has decided to take his own life, and all the sympathy goes to the now-dead man. My reading of the situation is that this woman – and there’ve been a few over the years – wants to talk to somebody but remain anonymous, while still getting feedback by way of other callers’ comments. They’ve rung me and said things like, how could you do this to me, how could you leave me with two children and a mortgage to pay – and they’re very angry. But I sense at the same time they don’t want to be seen as being too unsympathetic to the fact that he’s decided to take his own life.

Michelle: Sure, and this is where grief is so complicated – there are so many different factors depending on the situation. Suicide, that type of situation, might have different emotions associated with it – whether it be anger and fury, or there may be guilt, there may be a huge sense of sadness as well. But there are so many other different types of grief as well, as we go.

Host: Any general ideas about how people should approach it?

Michelle: It really comes back to being brave and being courageous, and making that first step to create that connection with someone who’s grieving. So it’s also about not avoiding – it’s quite easy for us to go, you know, I’m sure she’ll be fine, she’ll be right, hopefully she’s got lots of people around her. That’s an assumption, and it can be very important to recognise the assumptions we can make for people who are grieving, and also be open to sharing and reaching out to them – being a good human in that as well, because that humaneness and connection and conversation is really important when we’re experiencing grief or supporting someone who’s grieving.

Host: I think the idea of trying to cheer somebody up though can often go sideways, can’t it? I wouldn’t recommend saying, hey, come around for Christmas dinner, that’ll cheer you up.

Michelle: Sure, and it’s that double-sided situation where we go, alright, well, we still want to be able to invite someone over, and it’s also okay if we do cheer them up with a laugh, or we share a joke – in grief we’re still allowed to have a laugh and still allowed to enjoy happiness when it comes our way. And that can be a real test, especially when you’re in deep grief – that first experience of grief and the first laugh that we have, we can sometimes also feel a sense of guilt, because we think, well, our person’s not here and I shouldn’t be laughing. But actually, yes, we should be able to laugh, and we have permission to laugh and find some joy over the festive season, even at the same time as missing our person.

Host: Michelle, I appreciate your time and comments, thanks for coming on the program.

Michelle: Thanks so much for having me.

Michelle Moriarty, grief expert and founder of Grief Connect, and if you’re experiencing some dark thoughts or bouts of depression, you can call Lifeline on 13 11 14.