AgriFutures On Air podcast – 2023 WA AgriFutures Rural Women’s Award Finalist: Michelle Moriarty

This is AgriFutures On Air, brought to you by AgriFutures Australia, driving innovation in Australian agriculture.

Host: Hello, this is AgriFutures On Air and I’m Jane Cuddihy. The annual AgriFutures Australia Rural Women’s Award acknowledges the significant achievements of women from rural communities and industries by identifying, empowering and celebrating their forward-thinking initiatives. The Western Australian finalist, Michelle Moriarty, has an incredible story. Suddenly widowed with small children in April 2018, the West Australian managed to channel the devastating emotions she was experiencing into creating a support network and counselling service for those experiencing similar grief and upheaval. In its very nature, grief is so unpredictable and personal, and yet Michelle has tailored her Grief Connect program, and also her Grief Language Project, into something different for each individual. Like her other state and territory peers, Michelle has received a $15,000 grant from Westpac, the platinum sponsor of the award, which will aid her in rolling out her program for businesses and families across the nation. In this episode we’ll hear how Michelle, who is a registered social worker, orchestrated a life-changing experience for Australian widows.

Host: I’d love for you to tell me a little bit about Grief Connect and how it came about.

Michelle: Grief Connect provides grief and bereavement support services, and there’s three different services under there – counselling, widow support, and also the Grief Language Project. So the mission for Grief Connect is that no one across Australia grieves alone. I founded Grief Connect in May last year. My late partner Nathan Johnston died five years ago in 2018, and this was the biggest shock of my life. I had a two-year-old and a six-year-old that I needed to support through that, in addition to managing my own grief and having to continue on with regular life – putting food on the table, keeping a roof over our heads, interacting in daily life. So it was really challenging. I was absolutely devastated and I went into a huge period of shock. I was very fortunate in that I had a lot of family, friend and community support – my family were amazing and really supported me through childcare and so on. But despite having so much support, I just felt really isolated and alone. So I ended up meeting with another widow in Bunbury, and had this amazing chat with her, which ended up being a few hours’ worth of chatting, and I realised that I needed to meet other people who had the shared experience of becoming a widow, because that connection I had with her, and also seeing that she’d survived – and not only survived, but was thriving and doing well and able to get on with life while still honouring her person – was great role modelling for me to be a part of. From that point onwards I ended up creating a Facebook group, starting with a membership of four. Now there are over 340 young widows across WA in that group. I had no idea there were that many widows – but in fact there are 1,029,142 widowed people across Australia, of all ages. So the number of us out there is significant. Then, if we fast forward to September last year, my dad died suddenly, and my mother and I were devastated because I’m an only child and was very close to my dad. From that point I realised we need an over-55s widowed support group too. That’s how the Over 55s Widowed Support Group started.

Host: Oh my goodness. Michelle, I think we just need to stop for a second, because you’re rattling through all of these things so quickly, and they’re actually these really big moments and achievements and processes all at once. I just want to go back a step before we continue, because grief obviously is very different for everyone and affects people really differently – you’re focusing on widows here. How is losing a spouse or a partner a different grief to losing a close friend or a child? Is the grief itself different?

Michelle: Grief is very individual. How I grieve for Nathan, or how I grieve for my dad Neville, it’s all very individual – everyone does it differently, and it’s not comparable either. It depends on the type of relationship, how strong that relationship was, how often you’d see that person. There are lots of variable factors in each grief, so it’s very difficult to compare, because grief is so human, and we’re so unique in how it operates.

Host: When you set this group up it was initially for people like you who’d been widowed. Were the people reaching out mostly female, or did you find there were just as many male widowers who really needed that support too?

Michelle: Yes, there are men and women in both groups, and both are equally involved in contributing to the groups and attending the catch-ups. When it comes to grief and widowhood there’s no judgment, there’s no difference – we really respect each other’s opinions and experiences. What I love most about meeting with other widowed people is that we have really raw, brutal and honest conversations, and it’s a safe place to have them, because quite often we discuss things that most people don’t have to deal with – especially as a young widow, you know, what to do with your person’s ashes, or those kinds of difficult conversations, or re-partnering, which also brings a whole bunch of new challenges. They’re really difficult conversations to have, but within our groups they’re not difficult, because we all get it.

Host: It’s like an instant icebreaker then.

Michelle: It’s just an instant connection. As soon as we realise we’re both widowed, that connection is so strong – and that’s where the power of the therapy comes from, just being human and connecting with other people who get it.

Host: So how do the groups work? You’ve mentioned catch-ups and groups – is it one big group, or do you put people together by location?

Michelle: The groups are peer support groups – we’re all equal in the group, and all equally responsible for our own grief and also for caring for each other. So when we meet, it’s up to any group member to create an event, and this is the best part about it – if you’re living in a rural or remote location, you can create an event in your area, in a public space like a coffee shop or a park, somewhere appropriate to meet, and create a space where you can meet other people. We’ve had catch-ups in Perth, in Bunbury, at kids’ parks, at coffee shops, at family restaurants, and we’ve been out for evening dinners with no children – you can create it and make it how you want. That’s the best thing about it.

Host: Do you do any of it remotely, or do you find these sessions work better face to face?

Michelle: The online group is a support of its own. People regularly post about how they’re feeling, or something that’s happened, or something someone might have said to them, or they’ll ask a question, or ask for information about services and what has and hasn’t worked for other people. So the online support is incredible because it’s so open and broad, and the face-to-face events work really well too, because you get that face-to-face connection and the friendships really become established through attending catch-ups.

Host: Obviously this is a very peer-supported group, but there are other grief support services out there – how is this different, and what is it about it that really resonates with people?

Michelle: What works in the group is that shared experience – raw, honest conversations and sharing and connecting over that experience. What happens when we share like that is it reduces social isolation and improves mental health outcomes.

Host: When you’re a young widow, chances are there are young children involved too, like in your situation. Keeping yourself well would be a priority, to be able to support your children through it – is that a fair assessment?

Michelle: Absolutely. I have to be okay. And this is where it’s okay too to reach out to other people and say, “I’m struggling here, can you help me with my kids, or help me care for them, or help me with any other tasks?” When the person who’s grieving is able to push through that sense of “I need to do it on my own” and break through that and go “actually, I need a hand” – that’s really important, because we need to look after ourselves so our kids can be okay too. We’re role-modelling grief to them as parents. It’s really important that our children understand what grief looks like, so that when it happens to them they also have the opportunity to talk, and feel safe having those conversations with adults, and know that it’s okay and that they’ll be supported through it.

Host: I’m fascinated by your Grief Language Project, because this is something that’s quite close to my heart too – making sure that what you say to someone is not so much correct but supportive, more than anything else. Even down to understanding whether someone’s happy for you to say their person “died”, or whether they’d prefer to say they “passed on”. It’s such a distinctive area, but it’s really important to the person who’s grieving. Tell us a little about the language project and how that came about.

Michelle: The Grief Language Project came about because, from my experience, people didn’t know what to do – and to be honest with you, I didn’t know what to do either. I didn’t know anyone immediately in my family who was a widow, let alone a young widow. So it’s come from my passion to help educate people around how we manage grief and how we can navigate through it safely and supportively. The Grief Language Project is presentations, information and resources on how we can communicate and support each other with grief language, so that we become fluent in grief language, and when it happens to us, we know what to do.

Host: What’s the most common mistake people make – what did you hear that you really wish you hadn’t?

Michelle: One of them is “I know how you feel”. It’s important not to throw in a comparison – people’s intentions are good by saying these things, but it’s really important to have a think about it. When we’re talking about grief, be careful and cautious around saying “I know how you feel”, because that person’s grief and their world is about their grief at that point in time, and it can become very difficult to empathise with someone who’s had an experience they feel is similar – sometimes that can actually be harmful. But we also know people’s intentions are good when they’re trying to talk to other people about their grief.

Host: So what did you want to hear, or how would you like people to talk about it?

Michelle: One thing, especially when opening a conversation, is to use open questions first – a closed question is one with a yes or no answer. Use a question that’s open, like “how are you travelling?” I think that’s a beautiful way to ask someone how they’re going, because it gives the person who’s grieving the opportunity to take it down an emotional road, or a task-focused road, or answer whichever way they want – and it doesn’t carry any judgment or opinion. It’s a very open way to ask a question.

Host: Tell me a little more about the Grief Language Project and how it actually works.

Michelle: It’s all about helping our communities and workplaces become fluent in grief language. I can be contacted, and I can tailor any presentation through the project to your organisation, workplace or community group.

Host: Is it mainly about what we were just talking about – what you do and don’t say around people grieving? We had someone at my rugby club after a suicide in our community, men in their early 20s, a group pretty susceptible to that kind of thing when something traumatic happens, and someone came in and talked to our boys about essentially this. Is that the same kind of idea, or is it talking about language more generally?

Michelle: It’s death-specific grief language that I educate and talk to people about, and there are so many different types of death – suicide, long-term illness, accidental or trauma-related. Many deaths are trauma-related, so it depends on the type of need. If there’s been a death in a community or a workplace, or if it’s more for general grief education, I can come and present the Grief Language Project to communities, workplaces and corporate organisations, and tailor the information to the specific needs.

Host: You’re the Western Australian winner of the AgriFutures Rural Women’s Award, so congratulations. What kind of opportunities does that bring to what you’re doing and hoping to achieve?

Michelle: Thank you. Winning the state award has been life-changing for me. In terms of what it’s done for me and Grief Connect – it’s fulfilling my passion, which is getting community and Australia talking about grief. It’s that acknowledgement and witnessing, of myself and all the other widowed people and everyone else across Australia experiencing grief. It acknowledges our grief, which normalises it and makes us think, actually, grief is a normal human process – because I think we’ve become so used to “don’t talk about that death” or “don’t talk about the grief”, because it’s hard and uncomfortable. What AgriFutures and Westpac have done is make this a safe conversation to have. I’m really grateful for this acknowledgement.

Host: And I can hear it in your voice. At the moment most of your work is in Western Australia – is it transferable to other states? Can you see potential for expansion?

Michelle: Absolutely, Grief Connect is Australia-wide. Anyone can access my services, whether it’s counselling, the widowed support groups or the Grief Language Project – I’m able to travel, and I’m also looking at providing resources online and extending Grief Connect services, especially to meet the needs of people living in rural, regional and remote areas, because it’s even more isolating living out there than in the metro areas.

Host: A lot of this, as we’ve mentioned, is peer support – there’d be some cases where peer support isn’t enough and people need extra services. Is there scope to refer them, or help them find someone who can help further down the track?

Michelle: Absolutely. If I’m speaking to anyone through the counselling service, I can provide direct referrals to services. And within the widowed support groups too, if someone posts a question about what services helped them, or what has and hasn’t worked, other group members can chip in, especially if they’re living in that local area – quite often people have a lot of information about great services that are out there, and there are so many. As a social worker, I pride myself on making really good referrals, because it’s so important to have each aspect of our life supported and covered as we go forward.

Host: It’s incredible work you’re doing, considering it started from something so horrific for you and your family at the time. Back when you were first percolating on this idea, did you ever imagine it would flourish like it has?

Michelle: No, absolutely not. I was in the Women’s Weekly the other week, and it was very surreal – Grief Connect, our Widow Support Group, and Sonia from our Widow Support Group, who’s amazing as well – I could never have imagined that we, as a community of widowed people, would be acknowledged the way it’s worked out. I’m really appreciative of that, because it’s life-changing for us on the ground who are going through it and experiencing it.

Host: A lot of what you’ve been talking about here is supporting people through grief. Sometimes people will say something, or something happens, and friendships or connections don’t make it through. How do people who are supporting someone through grief make sure what they’re doing is actually helpful?

Michelle: I think one of the keys is asking the question. It’s quite easy, when you’re supporting someone who’s grieving, to avoid reaching out when you think you might. I really promote listening to your intuition – if you know someone who’s grieving and you keep thinking about them, wondering how they’re going, act on that. Send them a text message, give them a call, drop round with a meal. Instead of avoiding, really reach out, because that’s the stuff that’s life-changing, that’s what connects people to each other, and it gives us hope to move forward, knowing you’re in a community that cares. Asking questions is so important – especially if emotions are tough or you don’t know what to say, one helpful question is “what tasks do you need help with? Do you need to make any phone calls? Do you need a lift to the doctor? Would you like to go for a cuppa, or would you like me to come to your house for one?” Asking some questions around practical things you can do, and letting the person who’s grieving respond. And if they don’t respond, that’s okay too – their grief might be so big and overwhelming at that point, but keep checking in on them anyway, because those follow-up messages, even when someone doesn’t have capacity to respond straight away, mean so much.

Host: They really do. I’ve actually found myself on a few occasions just saying, “I don’t know what to say”, when it’s at the point where you’re just so overwhelmed – and sometimes that is actually the icebreaker too.

Michelle: That is a perfect thing to say, because you’re acknowledging your own feelings, and you’re also saying to the person who’s grieving, “I don’t know what to say, but I want to help. I’m here, I’m with you, I just don’t know what to say.” Even saying “I don’t know what to say” is an acknowledgement of their grief, and you can follow up with “I’m here to help” and let the conversation flow from there. The person who’s grieving can also help guide you where to go – but putting that care and that connection out there is just really important. It’s okay not to know what to say, because it is awkward. Grief is an awkward, uncomfortable conversation, because it stirs up sad emotions and lots of others. But if you notice how you feel at the end of a conversation, you’ll probably notice some relief around your own anxieties and some relief around their sadness too, because just having someone chat with you about it can ease that overwhelming sense of grief.

Host: This is probably a personal question, because as you mentioned, your dad died not too long after your own partner – and by that stage you already had this idea about the support service. Did you feel like you dealt with that grief differently to losing Nathan?

Michelle: My grief for my dad is still very raw. Nathan died five years ago, and my dad died only last September, and both were sudden deaths. I’ve dealt with them differently, because my relationship with both of them was obviously different, and I suppose I’d also been well rehearsed in what to do – Nathan’s death taught me how to manage my own grief and what I need to do for self-care, and to make sure I can still dip into my grief and allow it to flow when it presents. The other thing that’s true for both deaths is that grief is so unpredictable – it’s not linear, there’s no timeline, and it’s so unique and different for each person, so I can’t predict my own grief, apart from having some rough ideas – event dates, for example, are always tricky, always a tough time. So part of what I do, and what I promote through the Grief Language Project, is planning for event dates – because event dates, when it comes to missing the people who’ve died, no matter the relationship, are usually pretty tricky – Christmas, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, Easter, birthdays. For me it’s around planning, and making sure that whatever I plan, I also have an exit strategy – so I can always return to a safe place if I need to be on my own, or if I’m feeling overwhelmed and don’t want to be around lots of people. There are always a few plans I have for myself for each event date, and that’s really about self-care and learning what works, which I’ve learned through my own experiences, early in my grief, around what works and what doesn’t.

Host: That is incredible self-awareness – that’s a lot to manage. But as you say, it happens and you need to do it. How do you support your children through that? When you’re talking about event days, there’s the plan for yourself, your self-care, your exit strategy – how much do you have to consider the kids too, and do they come on the exits with you?

Michelle: Hugely – I have to consider them all the time, that’s my job. It depends on the event date and how I’m travelling and how they’re travelling, as to what I decide for them and what’s in their best interest. It’s super important that our kids can have conversations, so I make sure that if my kids want to chat about Nathan, or Pop, which is what they call my dad, we can have those chats, and I check in with them regularly around that. We do a lot of storytelling and story sharing, recalling memories – there are so many happy memories we can talk about – and by doing this we’re helping our children form their own sense of identity around who they are, where they’ve come from, who their family is, which is so important for their self-esteem and their own sense of identity.

Host: Michelle, we’ve spoken about some of the ways to support someone, and it is all about talking, but crying is a massive element of that too. Can you talk a little about that?

Michelle: Crying is such an important part of grieving – it releases chemicals in our brain that help us feel better. Some people are really outward with their grief, some are very inward, and we all do it differently – some people don’t cry at all, and that’s okay, and some people cry a lot. I think as a society we’re very fearful of tears, because we become uncomfortable and don’t like to see our fellow humans sad, but it’s okay that we cry as part of grief, and it’s so important that we’re able to sit with each other while someone is crying and allow that to happen. We might not know what to say when that happens, because we can’t fix people, but it’s okay to sit in silence when we need to and allow someone to just be, and sit with them in that space of being sad – because that again comes back to acknowledgement and witnessing of grief, and that’s the power in being able to move forward. So crying is certainly something not to panic about when it happens – it’s part of our human makeup, and it’s okay if we need a box of tissues to get through it. After Nathan died, I cried rivers – I didn’t realise it was actually possible to cry as much as I had. And I guess that was a huge learning piece for me around what grief meant and what it could look like. But again, my experience of grief may not be the same as everyone else’s – other people might not need to cry like I did, and that’s okay too. Now I can dip in and out of my grief, and I cry, and I talk a lot about grief and I’m able to do that, but I also make sure that when I need to, I take that self-care time and allow myself to go through the grieving process.

Host: And you’re so right that being with someone in that space is difficult but so important – you don’t need to fill all the quiet moments with pearls of wisdom or the perfect thing to say, it’s fine just to sit there. The other thing too is using names around grief – I’ve found in my experience that sometimes people have a hard time using names again, just being awkward about addressing what’s happened. Do you find it’s important for people who are grieving to have that acknowledgement, using the name of the person they’ve lost?

Michelle: I think firstly it’s always important to take cultural considerations into account, because in some cultures it’s not appropriate to use a name. But for myself, and from a lot of the people I’ve met, naming a person and saying their name is really important. If you’re not sure whether to do that or not, it’s okay to ask the person who’s grieving what they’d like – “is it okay that I speak about your person, or would you prefer I don’t?” There are different ways you can ask, but just clarify that first if you’re not sure. For me, talking about Nathan is so important – it’s such a release, and it’s an acknowledgement of his life. We get to celebrate and honour his life by saying his name and telling those fabulous stories about him.

Host: That’s what I was trying to get at before – not being afraid to ask people how they want you to refer to death too. Some people find it so jarring, but it’s important to know what makes them feel comfortable.

Michelle: Yes, just ask the question – it takes a lot of the awkwardness out before you even know it’s there. And once you know, you can freely flow – once you’re clear on how this person wants to go, it makes things so much easier, because then you might find it’s really easy to process your own grief and support them through theirs, because now you can talk about them, whether you say their name or not.

Host: I think what you’re doing is amazing. Michelle Moriarty, thank you so much for your time today on the AgriFutures podcast, and all the very best for the next round of the AgriFutures Rural Women’s Award.

Michelle: Thank you so much for having me.

That was Michelle Moriarty, the Western Australian finalist for the AgriFutures Australia Rural Women’s Award.